Rita Ostrovskaya: I am one of the authors of this molecule.

Jesse: Yeah.

Rita Ostrovskaya: You're probably interested in how we came to this molecule, yes?

Jesse: Very much so. I'd love to hear the history.

Rita Ostrovskaya: History is so - you certainly know about Piracetam, yes?

Jesse: Yes.

Rita Ostrovskaya: Piracetam was invented by one scientist who worked in UCB in Belgium and it was his invention. He got a substance which was able to improve memory disturbed by, for example, electric convulsion or hypoxia - and so he proposed it to clinics. And up to now some people don't like this molecule and specially in America they are very negative to this substance. Why? The point is it has lot of disadvantages. It means that it works only in very high doses. Doses of about 12 grams per day. It's a huge dose and in some people it doesn't work a lot. So I'm working in the Institute of Pharmacology. That is a very old and traditional institute. I'm working there for more than 50 years. You can imagine how old I am. I am 82 years old. Very, very, very active person. I have a lot of fellowships, a lot of students and so on. But let's come to the beginning and the history of Noopept.

Jesse: Yeah.

Rita Ostrovskaya: We have in our institute a rather big chemistry department. Our chemists decided to do something with Piracetam to improve it. Because its disadvantage is very low activity. All over the world there are many chemists who are trying to improve Piracetam by looking around this molecule. But our chemists used another way. They moved to so-called peptides. Peptides are a chain of amino acids and although they have positive features because they're rather active. But because they are close to the board they are not toxic and that is positive. But they also have negative features because they're not stable. They have a very low biological stability because of enzyme activities. So the exception is it conserves lower peptides. For example 10 or 100 amino acids. But if you take 2 amino acids only - the so-called dipeptides - it is another situation because they're rather stable and they penetrate good in the brain.

As you know, it's difficult to choose which amino acids you should take. So our chemists, they're very, very clever. They compared the structure of Piracetam and they took two amino acids - proline and glycine - and combined them to get the molecule which is closer to Piracetam. So we got the peptide, an analogue of Piracetam, and it appears it works very good in experiments in doses which are thousands less than Piracetam. For example, Piracetam works in doses of 200mg per kilo and our substance works in 1mg per kilo. You can understand the quantitative difference. And also there are qualitative differences because our substance works in a better way, in a wider spectrum of pathology. You know I run experiments for my colleges and we use a battery of tests which imitate the clinical situations. For example, we can have a model of brain trauma or ischemia or aging or pre-natal damages, so different kinds of damages. So in all these models our substance works very well. And it is not toxic. Our toxicologists perform the experiments on two kinds of animals - rats and rabbits - in different levels of doses. And they show that the substance is not toxic because it is close to indigenous amino acids. So it was in the very beginning, you know, we started with this substance in 1995. That is the history.

Jesse: With such low toxicology, are there any downsides that people should be aware of?

Rita Ostrovskaya: Not yet. It is in practice for a long time and there is really no side-effect, except for one. You know, during the first clinical trial, people have to write this information list. They agreed to be a part of this examination which was a second step of a clinical trial. And the people were rather nervous and had some anxiety while writing this paper. So many people who have hyperthyroid, they must rate a little bit higher blood pressure after Noopept. But we guess it was psychological. It is a very important problem of clinical trials, not only in our case.

Jesse: One of the things that I read was that not only does it have neurological benefits but it can be an inhibitor for diabetes.

Rita Ostrovskaya: Yes, I will tell you. The point is that now it is clear that brain damages of different origins have the same mechanism of damages. You can understand that there are chemical mechanisms, such as excessive formation of free oxygen on glutamic acid and inside other amino acids. Excessive accumulation of calcium or inflammatory cytokines. And all these mechanisms are involved in any kinds of brain damages. So it means that, for example, Piracetam is a weak substance, but it works in different kinds of brain pathology. It means the substance that helps to recover after stroke - the same substance can help to recover after brain trauma. And after pronounced convulsions in epileptic patients. So the mechanism of neuroprotection is really universal because the mechanism of damage is very similar. Except, for example, Alzheimer, where all these mechanisms also work, but it has other additional components such as beta amyloids. So it is another mechanism, but there are several common mechanisms in different kinds of brain pathologies. So that is the reason why many neuroprotective substances are effective in a wider spectrum of brain pathologies. In diabetes the beta cells of the pancreas are damaged and insulin is not produced. And that is the first point. The second point is that the genetic origin of beta cells is very similar to that of neurons and their chemical features. So it came to my mind that I can use neuroprotective molecules to treat diabetes. It is only my experimental data, no clinics yet. And I don't know when I have the possibility to try in clinics because it is rather expensive and so on. But now we have a rather good battery of tests for this diabetic model, and not only is Noopept working, but several other neuroprotective substances appear to be effective. So now we're in the process, but you saw probably our publications.

Jesse: Very interesting. Are the amounts of the neuroprotective substances that are effective for protection of the brain similar in scale to the amounts that are effective against diabetes?

Rita Ostrovskaya: I don't know because nobody has studied it. It's just the beginning. You know there is one lady, her name is Suzanne de La Monte - she proposed such ideas that Alzheimer's disease can be considered as diabetes of the brain.

Jesse: One thing that I read about Noopept that was surprising but in a good way, is that you don't build up a tolerance to it the way that you do with various chemicals but it is something that can sustain it's usefulness within your body.

Rita Ostrovskaya: No, there is no tolerance. We advise that the people use Noopept for around three months and then take an interval three times per year. As a prophylaxis - not a therapy, but also a prophylaxis.

Jesse: How much would be a normal amount for an adult person to take per day?

Rita Ostrovskaya: Three tablets - each tablet contains 10mg.

Jesse: It's metabolized pretty quickly within then the body then, if you're taking it three times per day.

Rita Ostrovskaya: Yes, yes - you know this is a very important point because all peptides are metabolized very quickly.

Jesse: What further studies are you working on now? You sound like such a vital and active person. What is it that you'd like to see happen next with your invention?

Rita Ostrovskaya: Yeah, I don't know, but I have to tell you that I'm taking Noopept for many years. But I'm not sure, in spite of the fact that I'm older, I'm not sure that is the main reason. I guess main reason is that I'm very active. I'm very active mentally and also I have a lot of interests. I work at the institute then I come back, I have a very small dinner and very small sleep. For example five hours and then I'm again near computer.

Jesse: *Laughing*

Rita Ostrovskaya: That is my secret because you know unfortunately I'm a widow. I lost my husband when I was 35 and he was also very young. He was a professor of rheumatology. He had a heart attack and he passed away. So my job is my hobby, unfortunately. It is not very good, but that is a fact.